Video 60

60. Bhagavad Gita I Chapter 5 Verse 1 I Swami Sarvapriyananda

[Music] guru so we have completed the fourth chapter of the bhagavad gita and we are about to start the fifth chapter so in order to make sense of um arjuna's question which will start the fifth chapter and also shri krishna's answer i just like to take a look back at the structure of sadhana what is spiritual practice what is sadhana in vedanta so for to do that i actually have this this table which i can share with you i've spoken about this on many occasions but it's good to take a look at it we'll see take a look you'll immediately recognize it i'm going to share the screen here so that you can see can you see can you see the yes um so here right so this we have seen earlier i mentioned it number of times what is sadhana in advaita so the idea in advaita vedante is that we are brahman we are infinite existence consciousness bliss so obviously there's no problem there in our real nature but the moment we are told this that we are brahman our immediate reaction is that uh i don't know that i don't feel that and that seems to be of no use to me at all right now because i've got so many problems and how is uh how are my problems solved by um knowing that by this being knowing that i am ramen because i don't feel it or experience it how do i get fulfillment from this so this i don't know it i don't experience it i'm not getting any benefit out of it this thing this is called ignorance this itself this experience itself is called ignorance here can you see my cursor it's moving yes so here is ignorance agaana this ignorance is is what we experience as um one second let me see all sorts of technical problems okay the moment we have so we have ignorance about our nature as brahman and we know the solution for that is knowledge not all kinds of knowledge knowledge that we are brahman and actually we know it does not mean just reading about it or attending a class but actually intuitive realization just like we at this moment we feel that we are this body mind we should be as confident and as clear that we are brahmana so this should come how does this come so it comes through gyani yoga what is gyani yoga specifically it is shavana manana nidit dihasana shavana of what of the upanishads and related texts from a qualified teacher should study it systematically so that is shavana studying the upanishadic knowledge um with the help of the bhagavad-gita with the help of the brahma-sutras and the prakarana texts so systematically learning vedanta and then reflecting upon it manana so that all doubts are cleared up we have clarity and conviction about it so once we know the teaching and we have clarity and conviction about it then it has to be assimilated till it becomes a living fact for us it is a living fact in fact but uh why it does not seem so is because of our lack of clarity or lack of insight you know i often get the questions on your questions about advaita vedanti often start with i understand uh what advaita vedante is but then dot dot dot everything that comes after the dot dot dot is actually a consequence of not understanding advaita vedanta if one truly truly understands advaita vedanta that but will not come at all even understands so real understanding real understanding is at the end of this ravana asana it is one has no problem at all so now one may say that it's um nice that you are saying it but i have been studying advaita vedanta for 30 40 years some say i've been studying it before you were born but it is not working i have so many problems so then in vedanta we say that there is a another layer of problems which is a weak shaper so scattered mind the first layer of problems was this ignorant mind so the second layer of problems scattered mind it is unable to grasp the teaching so to make the mind able to grasp the teaching we must solve this problem of scattered mind and the solution is focus attention uh this concentration ekagata is developed the method is upasana this where worship and meditation in in in vedic terms we don't talk about bhakti or yoga we talk about upasana you know invader three terms are there karma upasana gyara karma pasana and the whole of veda can be divided into these three and you sometimes the upasana and the karma parts are clubbed together into one karma karma means action upasana means worship or meditation and third is ghana means knowledge upanishads are taken as the gyan apart and everything else is put under the karma part but the karma part itself has two parts one is the actual physical ritualistic action the other one is the mental you know the imagination and the visualizations which are done so those are called upasanas basically this is what you find in modern meditation techniques in in hinduism which is a combination of bhakti and yoga and pranayama dharana dhyana samadhi and also in many cases associated with the visualization of deities so that is this thing it helps in focusing the mind here also one may claim oh i'm long ago i took mantra diksha i've been practicing meditation but my mind is so disturbed but especially when i practice meditation my mind becomes more disturbed now what is the problem now the third level the third layer of problems is called chitta mala impure mind so we have three three layers of problems ignorant mind scattered mind impure mind this impure mind what is the constituents of this impurity it is lifelong and maybe many lifetimes of conditioning negativities you know the desire and and the greed and anger and frustrations all sorts of vasanas which are we have conditioned our mind into and this conditioning manifests itself as a raga dosha strong likes and dislikes pull towards something and aversion towards other things and this is how our life goes and this disturbs our mind continuously it does not enable concentration the mind needs to be prepared so what is the preparation at this level impure mind has to be converted into pure mind so this is in sanskrit called this is the term we come across again and again in sadhana you'll always hear chitta is the thing necessary this is the first preparation which is done and now and one powerful way most powerful way of doing this karma yoga i've translated a selfless work but in the gita sense it's a it's a wide-ranging practice which converts all our actions both religious and secular sacred and secular into spiritual practice we can do religious actions with desire and we can of course do secular actions with desire converting those religious and secular actions into desireless selfless activity that is karma yoga which is krishna has been teaching at jonah so long now look at the this matrix look at this table what is happening here impure mind in sanskrit chitta mala is converted into pure mind in sanskrit by the method of karma yoga problem impure mind solution pure mind method karma yoga then with that pure mind we tackle the problem of the scattered mind problem scattered mind solution concentration method is upasana meditation but with with the pure mind and now you have got concentrated mind with the pure and concentrated mind gyana yoga shravana manana niridhyasana gives rise to knowledge um brahmagyan it which removes the is and we are back where we started that you are brahmana it will become clear without any doubt there will be no longer i understand advaita vedanta but that but is removed now it's done so this is the matrix of sadhana in this is the way and remember this is not a sequence it only looks like a sequence practically in our life we will do all of them we will come to vedanta class we will try to convert our activities into spiritual activity and daily we will sit for meditation our actions will be converted into karma yoga daily we will meditate and also uh use vedanta for atmoshara this will go on all right one additional note here swami vivekananda you remember his famous description of spiritual practice what is religion and what is the practice he says each soul is potentially divine and the goal is to manifest the divinity already within us so that is the goal the goal of religion or spirituality ultimate goal is to manifest the divinity within us and there itself a lot can be said very beautifully worded he does not say it is only to know the divinity here it seems what i just said it seems the goal is to know that you are brahmana but swami vivekananda says manifest the divinity already within us the manifestation of the divinity will have to be at the level of body mind and speech our thinking should change our speech should change especially our actions should change knowledge of brahman should transform us into saints into jivan muktas that is understood in advaita vedanta but swami vivekananda gives emphasis because above all swami vivekananda is very practical so the practical results are stated it is not only a paradigm shift i earlier thought i am this little jiva embodied self and here is a real world and some god i have to believe in from this dualistic paradigm i have now gone to the advaithic paradigm that is enlightenment i am rambhana sarvam khal vidham brahma all this is verily brahman this is my realization but swat swami is a very kindly saying that not only this after this you are an enlightened person you are brahmana but you are living into this body as long as you're living you must manifest those qualities the manifestation of the divinity is in selflessness in love for all in fearlessness in strength uh in absolute peace and serenity and joy all of those things should be manifested um all right but that's a my point here is different the next sentence he says do it by worship how how will you realize this how will you manifest the divinity so i am very confused do it remember his famous quote do it by worship do it by psychic control do it by philosophy or do it by work by one or more or all of these and be free that is the whole of religion books temples doctrines and churches are secondary details do you remember that so he mentions four yogas there he mentions these things what we are seeing right here these things are mentioned but the way look at the way he mentions it and how he arranges it he says he do it by worship here this one upasana do it by philosophy here ghana yoga do it by work here karma yoga and also he separates raja yoga from this he says do it by psychic control that is patanjali yoga raja yoga and then he says by one or more or all of these and be free and that is the whole of religion books temples doctrines churches the secondary details now immediately you will notice something here here there is a clear clear hierarchy in advaithic the paradigm in the table here you can clearly see a hierarchy first at the basic level karma yoga will give you chittashuddhi remove impurity of the mind then the pure mind will be focused through upasana it will give you concentration and remove scattered the problem of scattered mind then the pure and concentrated mind will be effective in absorbing the teachings of vedanta which will give rise to knowledge and knowledge alone will remove ignorance that removal of ignorance is moksha so what gives moksha not as long you become the says by one or more or all of these not one or more or all of these only gyani yoga gives moksha only gyan yoga removes adjana and that is moksha even there are also swami vivekananda's whatsoever khan they says can be fitted in this when he says you know what a traditional commentator would do would say that yes when swami vivekananda is saying by one or more or all of these what he means is in this sequence so karma yoga bhakti yoga all of them are there but in this sequence and this will give you moksha all of them are required in this sequence and will give you more in this hierarchy this arrangement preliminary karma yoga higher than this meditation and highest of all gyani yoga and gyani yoga alone will give you a bookshelf because ghana alone can remove again ignorance what is the obstacle to moksha no obstacle you are already free you are brahman you are already free where is the obstacle the obstacle is you don't know it that again itself has to be removed and that's all the error that we are not free has to be corrected that is the purpose of sadhana in advaita vedanta but that's not what songwriter meant if you say they're taking a simple and honest about it what swami vivekananda means is bhakti can give you that manifestation of divinity gana can give you that manifestation of divinity yoga can give you the manifestation of divinity and karma yoga can give you the manifestation of divinity work philosophy meditation and devotion all of them can give you many that divinity that manifestation of divinity by themselves or in combination and do it in whichever way and attain that moksha and that is the goal of of spirituality so you can clearly see a major difference here and so note that this hierarchy it is of course correct and it is the traditional advertising approach but that's not the only approach advaita vedanta is not the only vedanta there is vishishta dwighta there is dreita there is and there are also minor subschools now when you come to ramanuja for example he will not accept this he will reverse it he will say yes karma yoga is first super karma yoga is always preliminary but then next comes gyani yoga and the highest car is bhakti ultimately by karma yoga you'll get a purified mind then by the practice of gyana you will realize that you are not body and mind you are consciousness you are the chit amsha of brahman then by bhakti you are the chitamsha brahman and with bhakti towards brahman bhakti towards narayana you will attain moksha by the grace of narayana and that moksha is you go to vaikuntha and live in the presence of narayana and there are various kinds of moksha there are and all the other vedanta schools the the bhakti schools of vedanta there are variations of this they all give primacy to bhakti ultimately and there are further subdivisions of bhakti in each of them there are some like for example the chaitanya school the gaudiya vaishnava school uh which would say that you need not bother so much about meditation in fact in bishopville itself i was interested to know one great scholar um lakshmi tatacharya he said that the meditation side is not developed at all in vishishta dwaytha in vishishtadvaita there is ritual there is there is upasana detailed is there and there is gyana and bhakti bhakti is highlighted this is a theology of bhakti but the actual patanjali type of meditation that is not stressed that's maybe one thing which has sort of been which is withered away if you come to chaitanya school of vaishnavism the bengal gaudiya vaishnava school their bhakti is primary in fact they will say that you need not bother so much about karma yoga you need not bother about patanjali yoga you need not bother at all much about gyani yoga at all will you just take a bhakti of krishna and all those other things purity of mind concentration of mind removal of ignorance whatever is necessary all of those things will come because of bhakti by bhakti alone they will come and it's not wrong at all so my point here is if you go to the other schools of vedanta they will not accept this what am i doing here i'm giving you first of all the basic advaithic paradigm this is this is it next i'm disturbing the paradigm mixing it up by bringing in swami vivekananda then i'm showing why swami viv now i'm going on to show why swami vivekananda has done that so note that um raman this this paradigm is what shankara agrees with shankara's paradigm and if you want to read the bhashyas and understand shankara's commentaries this is very important otherwise it will not make sense this is how shankara has understood upanishads and gita and all but ramanuja will not agree with it will not agree or allah will not agree with it will not agree with it chaitanya mahaprabhu will not agree with it or their followers will not agree with it i heard a great advaita teacher so without naming swamiji khan of course but sort of criticizing there are people who say you can attain moksha by any of these paths and these paths you can take up one or more than this and attain moksha no no it is not possible how is it possible it's illogical only by removing ignorance one can attain moksha so guyana removes ignorance only yoga will give you moksha but yes the other yogas are useful how are they useful in this way so it is not like four yogas are there and they are all paths to motion no so that was an indirect or maybe almost direct criticism of swami vivekananda but the thing is if you and that acharya who taught this is coming from a very very good very authentic shankar of vedanta lineage but the price of holding on to that is you are indirectly implying that all the others are wrong that ramanuja is wrong and you know nimbark or madhvacharya and all their other followers are wrong is it really true that all of them are are wrong and is it is it possible that how is it possible that in all those traditions clearly great saints have come over the last thousand years you'll have to say that they did not attain moksha they followed the wrong path not at all so here comes what swami vivekrand is doing he's working out sri ramakrishna's synthetic vision a very broad vision of spirituality that from sudama krishna's perspective what's wrong with this perspective this paradigm this this table which you are seeing here is perfectly all right 100 a plus no problem at all if you follow this much only you will get enlightenment clear but it does not mean the others are wrong those others also will lead you to enlightenment and moksha see they are consistent from their metaphysics this is consistent only if you accept the advaita metaphysics the advaitha metaphysics is you are already brahman problem is ignorance once you accept that then the rest follows very easily logically the problem is ignorance solution is knowledge if solution is knowledge all the other then yoga is the way if ghana yoga is the way that the other yogas are helpful but not the way not the final which will give you moksha but this is not the metaphysics of ramanuja ramanuja you are not brahman you are a part of brahman so you have a relation to the whole you have a relation of jivatma to paramasma and that relation can only be bhakti therefore bhakti is the final thing and similarly another kind of metaphysics is madhvacharya's metaphysics so a different hierarchy will be set up what swami vivekananda says all those hierarchies will work they will all work bhakti will work gyana will work if you take up something like patanjali yoga just the yoga sutras of patanjali at no place patanjali will say um i am sort of halfway first you do karma yoga then you come to me and then after that i will promote you to gyana yoga go to shankara no patanjali claims i will give you kaivalya follow my method i will give you earlier so swim vivekanthe is actually pretty um he's keeping it strictly to the uh to the claims of the founders of the systems each of them claimed that my path is a path to the highest and he is also true to the originals that means if you see the upanishads themselves or the gita they are they are not they are not strictly setting out this this this paradigm this is a systematization which you do once you have a philosophy a darshan a particular system will come up so this is what has happened all right i will leave it at that um so from swami vivekana's perspective this method which which you are seeing here and which i follow also which i will which is what i am talking about when i talk about what is going to come in the next few verses so i'm very kind has no objection to this at all but that you have to see the in a larger context is there anything else i want to say no good now let's get into the verses so when i analyze this it's easier for me to stick to one paradigm so this is the paradigm i will stick to but keep the larger context in mind in the background of your mind now fifth chapter krishna you teach renunciation of actions and again action tell me decisively that one of the two which is good for me okay what is arjun asking here the yogas which we just saw from an advaitic perspective they're all necessary did you notice that karma yoga will has a specific purpose it removes our ignorance it removes our impurities raja yoga or upasana has a specific purpose it removes our distractions and then gyani yoga is a specific purpose it gives rise to knowledge which removes our ignorance and then we realize that we are brahmana which is moksha now if that is so you cannot ask there which one should i practice see i'm discussing what arjuna is going is asking what is the nature of his question tell me which is best karma yoga is best organic is best but that question is you can now see it is not a logical question it's not a reasonable question it's like suppose i want to go to india i ask you how do i go swami take a cab from here to newark airport and then take a flight from there to mumbai or delhi if i ask you no tell me one you're telling me two things should i take a flight or should i take a cab this is why we have to do both but both the cab will take you for one part of the journey and in the plane cannot do that and plane will take you for another part of the journey the cab cannot do that both are necessary similarly here karma yoga and also raja yoga and also ghana yuga all are necessary one will give you purity of mind one which specializes in concentration one will give you knowledge enlightenment one may ask so why not after all if i'm looking for enlightenment and moksha why not straight jump to gyani yoga it is like saying why not straight take the plane why just bother with the cab no that will not work so we have to start where we are i have to start i'm in manhattan i need to get to the airport i have got impurity of mind i need purity of mind yoga will not work you just feel sleepy in vedanta class i'll get bored so or we may be very interested in vedanta we may understand everything but we will say things like i understand vedanta but so that but is because of the lack of previous preparation now however however arjuna's question has a meaning this question tell me one of the two see this ghana yoga and and karma yoga are tied up with another thing with grihastha and sannyasa so this is an issue which is bothering arjuna remember what he is he is engaged with a problem that he is going to fight this war or not fight this war and krishna has now told him about vedanta moksha and the possibility of sannyasa so now he's thinking if i have to do gyani yoga and there's the possibility of sannyasa by do taking sannyasa becoming a monk giving up my household responsibilities including responsibility of fighting this war maybe i can become enlightened so why should i have to why do i have to go through this here is an intelligent question which is a real question actually because here our scriptures vedanta actually gives you an option so the four ashramas and notice the very beautiful use of the word ashram ashram is a place for spiritual practice so grista is also an ashram it's a place for spiritual practice just like vedanta societies and ashrama the monastic life is an ashrama householder life is also an ashram the whole point was to use these stations of life for spiritual practice to become enlightened here is arjuna's question that it seems to me that one can legitimately if once is seeking enlightenment one can stop why should i engage myself in um you know worldly duties why should i lead the household i understand if i lead a householder life if i'm if i'm a warrior a prince a general of the army then i understand it follows my duty is to fight this war but suppose you're telling me it is it is possible to become a monk and become enlightened so why don't i do that and that's a genuine question distinguish between the two questions should i do karma yoga or gyani yoga now we realize it's not a real question you have to do both but should i continue as a warrior as a married man and fight this battle or in general fight the battle of life or should i give up all of that and go away to the mountains or to you know an ashrama and become a monk and then practice uh my southern and become enlightened after the goal is enlightenment why bother with all this you know husband wife children bank job insurance and so many problems why just become a monk so what do what does vedanta say about it some religions hinduism gives all these hinduism is always a very broad spectrum so it includes all of these it includes the possibility of householder life and spirituality includes the possibility of monastic life giving up householder life and specialized spiritual life called domestic life and becoming enlightened both are perfectly fine in hinduism there are religions which um over emphasize monastic life and there are religions which do not permit monastic life so for example uh buddhism especially the early buddhism the buddhism the hinayana is not a good term it's a derogatory term buddhism then jainism these are heavily monastic paths so in theravada buddhism for example to be to get nirvana in the path taught by buddha it is strongly recommended that you become a monk a bhikkhur bhikkhuni sannyasi or sannyasini and give up householder life householder life can only prepare you at best next life you are fit to be a monk then you will become you will get nirvana you can practice the ashtanga margaret to the full you cannot do it if you are involved in society but if you give up and become a monk or a nun then so always monasticism is praised above um householder life the whole thing was much more you know toned down when the mahayana developed i was talking to a professor at harvard last year so why do you think that mahayana suddenly developed so from an academic perspective there is a whole mythology of how these hidden teachings of buddha were revealed and the parameter sutras was revealed nagarjuna for example he gets the knowledge from the nagas and so and so forth and this was the highest teaching of the buddha which was hidden and only waiting for buddhism to develop to that point where the next level of teachings could be given this is the story but of course academicians are going to have none of that so they are saying that it's obvious the professors have told me just think about it you have large monastic communities who's going to pay for it the householders are going to pay for it who's going to give them who build the monasteries and give them food and give them clothes give them bhiksha it's householders and at one point you have to accommodate the householders you can't keep denying that you will you will not get nirvana you know you're only there to give biksha to me no spirituality full the highest spirituality must be available to the householder and therefore you find mahayana developing but the original buddhism strongly emphasized this in jainism also you see the same movement jainism is also very austere very monastic the digambara giants so the gambara giants say that without being a monk one cannot get uh nirvana or in their terms kaivalya the kevala the cable in state one cannot attain and that too a very severe monastic life for lifetimes is necessary and um a more moderate form was the shwetamba the white cloth so the sky clad that means you have to remain naked that is the very austere digambara you know kind of monasticism both are still there right now but that also praised in jainism monasticism is highly praised so it's always a great celebration and you know highly praised if some young person man or woman becomes a monk or a nun on the other hand uh in religions like sikhism for example islam or judaism um monasticism is not encouraged in fact there are no clear monastic orders there are always fakies or you know mystics or aesthetics but um monasticism is a major tradition of the religion not allowed in sikhism not allowed in judaism not allowed in islam as i said don't immediately talk about them you know like the sufis or the pakis so they are they are like what do you call freelancers they are not part of an organized monasticism so there it is a household religion it's your commanded to marry and be part of society and raise a family and be religion and religious and spiritual in christianity and hinduism both are there in catholic christianity for example monasticism was there there are monasteries monks and nuns from the very beginning from christ's time from the apostles who were all monks christ and all and apostles were all monks and of course a very strong householder tradition is there noticed that protestantism when one sense was a reaction against this they wiped out the monastic part of it in in the protestant revolution um so what was it trying to say yes so in hinduism you have these two broad approaches if you go back to the upanishads and shankaracharya who is very pro-monastic himself because he's a monk and his audience is mostly vedantic monks but he makes it very clear upanishads for example what is the hindu approach to this it says that there are four stations of life four ashramas four places for spiritual development brahmacharya the student life before you get married then that's an ashrama then there is grihasta the householder once you get married and then there is vanaprastha after your children are grown up and gone you retire and focus on spiritual life that is a retired kind of you know not monastic but a spiritual life dedicated to study contemplation and all and finally sannyasa for all for all not compulsory but it is open for all you know you can finally be uh alone and only dedicated to enlightenment and seeking moksha so four stages four ashramas brahmacharya um the student the householder the forest dweller and the monk then the upanishad says something interesting first it says having been a brahmacari become become a forest dweller having been a forest dweller become a monk this is how your life should progress and then it goes on to say very interesting thing [Music] if you are ready if you want moksha and nothing else in life if you are ready for that then you can become a monk it's an interesting addition you can become a monk from the student life directly from the household of life directly or from the forest dweller life so this is added in the uh jabal openation which is what gives us permission so all these people who become sannyasis or sannyasinis without going through grayas to life how is this permitted in hinduism this is permitted because of that that rule since the goal is enlightenment if you think you are ready for monastic life one needs a certain readiness which is better it depends it depends on one's readiness what one wants in life one station in life and also ultimately on one's own karma what one ends up is not so much really a choice as um you know once prarabdha karma there are advantages in householder life their advantage is in monastic life sri ramakrishna for example when the householder devotees would say that should we give up household life he said no no why should you give up he says being in household life and trying to worship god is like fighting from inside a fort if you're a monk who's going to feed you you're going to wander here and then half of your energy will be spent in being a beggar so you are in householder life there is security you have money in the bank you have a husband and a wife and children and grandchildren to look after you hopefully and uh you have insurance and so stuff like that and so you have a certain place in society you have things to do in life um a certain role to play in life and that helps once to one to develop in contrast what is monastic life basically you give up monastic life literally means giving up a renouncing renouncing what renouncing all relations so a monk does not have husband wife does not have father mother children relatives friends enemies they are all one to a monk a special place may be given to guru the the teacher but otherwise everybody is one to you does not have possessions you can't have gadgets or money or stuff like that strictly speaking and does not have obligations duties and obligations neither religious ritualistic which was a big thing in ancient india you had so many things every day you had some rituals to perform nothing nor do you have material obligations to family to community or to society okay that leaves you totally free for one thing and one thing only is to seek enlightenment and be and get enlightenment it's amazing that a society valued it so much it would privilege this and support a group of people to do this and encourage people to do this at least at the end of their lives or if you wanted you would be it would be very prestigious very good everybody would be happy to help you to do that if you wanted it early but the danger here is that unless one is prepared for this if you let go it sounds great that's why arjuna is asking let me do that then i don't want to fight this battle i don't want to have enemies and friends and all of that i just want to become enlightened and sit upright like you told me in second chapter the danger is and i've seen this again and again in in the mountains and other places moment you're let out of this kind of framework of householder life of social obligations you begin to see the value of that that is a framework which imposes a discipline and structure on your life if the mind is not ready to sincerely pursue a life of one pointed spiritual practice then the mind will simply relapse back into tamas you end up being a beggar a vagabond a good for nothing or you enter politics or do something like that you know just occupy your time so that that's what happens it's not all that easy that's why in our um okay all right let me just go ahead and see what krishna says so look at the verse here what arjuna is asking is you are talking you are praising the giving up of activities a monastic life give up all secular and religious rituals associated with householder life by the way one more point hinduism recognizes that householder life is the basis of society who pays for students the college and at least in india the parents pay for everything and until you one student was there was one one indian uh uh you know visitor here was saying that you know swami when we were growing up in india we had this feeling by going to college you're doing your parents a favor it's only here that i realize that it's it's a parents who are doing you a favor if they're financing your college and education in india it's like if you study and work hard you're doing a great favor to the parents so it's the householders who who finance the the student it's the householders who take care of the you know the retirement homes and all of that are are the monies from your householder earnings so the the forest dwellers are also provided by the householders and the monks are entirely provided for by the householders so the householder is the basis of society now sannyasam karma naam krishna you are talking about renunciation of activities renunciation of duties and obligations monkhood punar yogam sasham sushi but you also have talked about karma yoga doing your duties wherever you are in householder life spiritualizing that both you have talked about yat shreya yeti or akam of these two what is good for me what will take me to enlightenment tanmay bruhi sunita tell me one definitely so one of them you you please prescribe should i stay like this or should i become a monk and even the question of becoming a monk you know we all know this from monastic life in our monastery it's just before the exams a lot of young people want to become monks it's because they are fine are the rest of the year but when the exams are near i don't like all this i want to realize god and can i join the monastery and we say of course you can but just you have to graduate we need a graduation certificate from you before you let you into the monastery and they all disappear they never come back again so it's just the crisis people want to avoid that arjuna also wants to avoid it he was perfectly fine with what he was doing till now but only in this crisis he doesn't like it anymore so that's one problem but now he is asking tell me one of these two which will lead me to enlightenment here it says what is good for me tell me one but basically what is good shreya means enlightenment it is upanishadic language shreya and prayer shriya means the highest goal literally in sanskrit means that which is good prayer means that which is pleasant the good and the pleasant are unfortunately rarely the same thing and they tend to differ the good takes you towards your goal the goals of human life and ultimately the goal of enlightenment the pleasant usually makes us sink back into the mud of worldiness so shreya here means this goal you're talking about enlightenment i agree it's a great thing i want to attain that so this is my question all this in order to point out that this question can be interpreted in two ways one way is should i do ghana yoga or karma yoga tell me one that is easy to answer answer is both because as you saw the the table karma yoga upasana ghana yoga all are necessary you have to do i take a cab or an airplane both it's very easy to answer there's no option there but the other one is a genuine question should i become a monk or remain as a householder so this is the question a question is there only when there is a genuine choice before i go to the answer already there are questions about the question i think there is activity in the chat let me take a look prabhupada was saying definition of moksha is different between advaita and vishishta that are correct so the idea of moksha liberation so liberation is a general term liberation what liberation from what liberation from the cycle of birth and death liberation from sorrow in both cases in advaita the sister dwight of the conditions are satisfied if you realize your brahman you realize that you are forever beyond birth and death you never wear in the cycle of birth and death if you are in an advertised paradigm you go to vaikunta they're bored of vishnu and stay there eternally so you are liberated from the cycle of birth and death so both both are good definitions so both satisfy the criteria of moksha freedom but the nature of freedom is different in one you are this impersonal infinite absolute in the other you are in an eternal loving relationship you know with god the difference between becoming sugar and eating sugar sudama krishna put it that way being sugar and eating sugar srirama krishna attitude why would you then say they are the same thing they are the same thing ultimately because you are in contact with the same reality so ramakrishna said if you if you eat a cookie in bengali i think he said so if you're eating a cookie you if you eat it this way or you eat it this way it tastes sweet so if you realize yourself as an impersonal absolute or you are in divine communion with with god the god of religion it works either way and you are free of samsara so that much is all that is meant here rama is saying swamiji you mentioned that bhakti is not spoken much in the vedas directly it's interesting to note that except advaitha school or other vedanta schools talk about bhakti is the primary path it is true it is true um if you see so so that's why very interestingly all the other vedanta schools they give lip service to the upanishads being the fundamental texts of vedanta but from vishishta dwight onwards you will see the growing importance of bhagavad-gita you'll see the growing importance of the bhagavatam you see the growing importance of the vishnu purana so the puranas and the bhagavatam and the gita which talk extensively about god and devotion to god those things become central although they will always give a check that we accept the upanishads as a final authority also just as an observation the most ancient philosophies in india they're all philosophies of knowledge have you noticed that whether it is yoga or vedanta i mean the advaita vedanta path or buddhism or jainism very ancient and they all belong to more or less the same almost the same period of development and in the earliest form the sutra literature and there the emphasis is solely on knowledge what is knowledge again is very different from different philosophies but it's not on devotion to a deity nowhere none of them again it's a very general and sweeping statement i'm making girish is saying it's the same to practice suzupasana and karma yoga on a faster track to moksha than the sinner who practices only ghana yoga if you by saint and sinner you mean one of purified mind and one of my not purified it is true without purified mind i have mastered vedanta read all the books i have completed all you know in university language i've done all the readings and assignments but i have not purified my mind and then the la the it's not fast track at all it's just going to take that much longer as vivekananda put it an ounce of practice is worth 20 tons of tall talk vishwanathan is saying in the three cross three matrix after developing a concentrated mind when this comes to gyani yoga is the assumption that now they have the capability to apply their mind better yes in other words the student becomes good at regular meditation and then they also practice vedantic meditation chavan marana needed the hassan first of all the ability to absorb these teachings increases with spiritual practice these teachings means teachings of non-duality otherwise one will sort of one will begin to feel frustrated after some time if one jumps straight to non-duality to the upanishads and the brahmasutras and you know grit rishabh vivek and upper okay bhuti it's the mandukya karika so directly it's very satisfying intellectually it's very satisfying um when confronted with actual problems in one's life then becomes a struggle it becomes a struggle to dismiss those problems as the upanishads would as manduka would want you to do whereas with sufficient preparation concentration of mind purification of mind dispassion for the world it becomes much easier to actualize those teachings and student becomes good at regular meditation vedantic meditation regular meditation vedantic meditation these are two different things very interesting topic i will not enter into it now but those who have heard the apology series at the end 15 techniques of vedantic meditation are talked about by shankaracharya and there he takes um you know like to distinguish between what does it mean in regular meditation by regular i mean yogic meditation and what does it mean in vedantic meditation those terms so the distinctions have been made i have done that in my talks on approach you will see all the aspects of our stages of yogic meditation what it means in regular yogic meditation and what it means in advertising meditation that distinction i've drawn it at length there albana chatterjee says if the mind is not focused on a particular thought is thought less trouble focusing on yes we shift the mind the the focused mind will be able to focus on whatever you wanted to focus on withdraw and then focus on the next thing it will be under your control srinivas says three stages of one single development that's also a unique contribution of saying that they if you look at the textbooks of indian philosophy so they all seem like competing systems vishesh advaitha dwight are the same texts and differing interpretations and a thousand years of dialectics mostly dualistic attacks and non-dualism that's what you see that's good that led to a refinement of thought if your ideas are being criticized attacked it only helps you to rethink and clarify those ideas but also as swansea vekanda said they are phases in the development of one way of thinking um there's the same thing can be grasped dualistically the same thing can be understood non-dualistically it is like a hanuman that i like that so much when suramar krishna approved of it you know he says then hanuman was asked by ramacandra what do you think of me ramachandra his lord says what do you think of me and hanuman replies as this body you know as hanuman you are the lord i am thy servant and dehydrated as a jiva sentient being you are you and i are one reality okay but then finally finally this tree he says this is my final conclusion which one all three but depending on the perspective body body centered this individual being which i am right now god exists i am the servant of the lord go deeper i am a sentient being in this body coming going through lifetime after lifetime i am a part of an organic spiritual whole vishishta the first one is relationship whole and part relationship that is vishishta and from the absolute perspective as pure being as pure consciousness god and i are one reality their god is not god i am not an individual as meister eckhart the great german theologian who is very non-dualistic catholic theologian he says the ground of god and the ground of my soul are one and the same it's just mahavakya the same thing as thou art in fact one book i was reading recently is a rare book by you've heard of couple stone father couples copeland stone was a jesuit priest he has written this i think 12 volume history of western calligraphy nobody much reads those things now but he was a jesuit priest at the end of his life he delivered the templeton lectures and the lectures were the philosophy of one you know and there he talks about advaita vedanta he says late in life i came across the teachings of of india and so i've ventured beyond western philosophy so he brings in advaithic teachings and he looks at it in buddhism in islam in christianity and invest in philosophy um so yes that's the final and swami vivekananda says this is the stages of development still i mean little bit if you're going to be critical about this you will say that still privileges advaita vedanta because a dualist committed follower of madhuacharya for example will not be happy with this kind of interpretation that means if it's a development and i'm at the bottom of that scale and then higher is qualified monism and the highest is advaita vedanta who wants to be at the bottom of the scale i remember we asked once swami bhutesh anandaji that isn't it that swami vivekananda said there are stages three stages of one single development like a like the rungs of a ladder dualistic thought qualified monistic and then absolutistic that means advaita vedanta and his answer in his typical draw you know he was i think about 95 or 96 years at that time and he would speak slowly withdrawal he said yes but remember a ladder can be reversed so your non-dualistic advaita vedanta becomes the lowest rung of the ladder and dualistic devotion becomes the highest the latter can be reversed conceptually that's actually what the um gordia vaisnavas do the followers of chaitanya they put advaita at the lowest it's sinners who become non-dualistic that saintly become devotees of krishna okay so that we know where we stand nature is asking swamiji i can assume we practice all three methods in parallel yes we practice all three methods absolutely even for shankar advaitans who say this is the way first karma yoga then upasana and then advaita if you look at their lives from the very beginning do they spend 30 years doing karma yoga sweeping the ashram and then next 20 years repeating the guy three mantra and then the final you know like 30 years listening to the upanishads not at all from the very beginning there is karma yoga there is ritualism and upasana and there is the study of the vedanta shaman and nativity so they all go parallelly even for the strictest non-dualist they all go parallelly punita says buddha left everything behind to gain moksha but he was likely not confused like arjuna notice we will see now next but notice one thing about the life of the buddha he left everything became a monk and he strongly recommended monastic life afterwards but notice in the first i think eight years or ten years of his life he went through intense practices purity of mind one monk rather uncharitably he quipped that the kind of life he had led before becoming a monk so you he needed to go through all that austerity and suffering to cleanse his mind of all those samskaras which he had gathered in us as a prince so he went through intense very hard austerities and seeking meditation and physical hostilities so that gave him the necessary preparation for that final breakthrough then this is a good point to this is a good good time to introduce what i wanted to say uh it will come later on actually even in monastic life that is why he says i mean even in monastic like krishna will point out in the next few we have already run out of time even in monastic life it is understood that uh preparation may not be there necessary preparation from gnostic life may not be there so for example in our order and know many others the moment somebody a young person becomes a monk they're thrown into a lot of responsibilities and we are always common complaint among the newcomers we are not getting time for meditation we are not getting time for study so much work is being given to us on purpose you are kept busy from morning to evening you thought you you ran away from a householder life i remember when i joined three days later after i joined um a senior monk said look there is a hostel there are 40 kids there go and look after them i thought if i had become a householder and married i would have one or two kids now there are 40 kids to look after you cannot run away from responsibilities so and that that load i used to work in the office i used to work in the kitchen i used to work in the temple i used to work in this classroom i used to look after a hostel and on top of that meditation and puja and scriptural study and a pre really hard life in those days it was there wasn't even a fan in my room it was really hot and um there's a there's a purpose to it that rounds out the personality that develops a certain resilience and strength that struggle what what a householder who is trying to lead an ethical moral life in in society a married life with children and responsibilities and struggling with society um you know and trying to be spiritual in that the same kind of development is necessary even in the russia so that's why so much responsibility is put one monk he told me when he joined he was in narendra puram krishna mission which is an educational complex he was a young i mean he was a novice and he the same complain i have so much work i don't have time for meditation he wrote to swami atma who later became the president of the order i am working 12 hours a day and he was grumbling basically it's a complaint 12 or 14 hours a day i have no time energy left over at the end of the day for any kind of what is this what's going on here i'm just working hard school and swami atma stands you wrote back one line i am so happy to know that you are using this opportunity to do the lord's work to do do the work of taku sulaam krsna's work for 14 hours a day you are blessed so that monk says now i i completely agree with him now i was furious when i got that letter earlier i said what's this but but that's true all the monks who go through that phase first 5 10 15 years 10 years at least they agree it's absolutely necessary i will not take the other questions now you've run out of time um i will please remember your questions we will see that next time i'll end with one experience i had myself is that when the first time i left the monastery after taking the vows of monasticism i went off to the mountains i thought enough with schools and colleges and monastic community and routine i want to be like those traditional monks you know sit in a cave or a hut in them at least 10 000 feet high in the mountains and meditate and i did that and i enjoyed it and i really made progress and one of the times when there was really a burst of progress now a question came to my mind this is great i have no obligations at all i just go couple of times to beg for my food and in this extraordinary atmosphere you know high up in the mountains spectacular beauty complete solitude you are left to your own devices why didn't i do this earlier why did i spend 10 years in an ashram you know being engaged with action duties and immediately the answer came to me the only reason i am able to enjoy this and did i benefit from it and progress spiritually is because i spent those 10 years in training so the training basically this is what krishna is going to tell him that remain in the householder life do what you're supposed to do and that will give you the training the preparation for for enlightenment you can do it in monastic life but it's much better to do it in householder life that's what krishna is going to tell him even if you enter monastic life like i did you will still be put through the grind to prepare yourself and i saw in the himalayas people who have monks who have not gone through the grind who would straight away you know removed all restrictions removed basically it doesn't work they're very sad stories it's a very risky maneuver all right [Music] i'm sorry i could not go through all of the comments rama and krishna's gurus are householders ramakrishna's gurus were sannyasins is this a tide of the kali yuga not necessarily one of sriram krishna's guru was a householder the first one he got mantra diksha from we don't know much about him and in the bhagavad-gita the teacher krishna is a householder the student arjuna is a householder the one who has come you know compiled and written the whole thing vyasa the the sage is a householder in fact in the entire bhagavad-gita monastic spiritual masters are basically a sideshow they are there but they are just like hermits and they are marginal actually both in the ramayana and in the mahabharata okay